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Sunday, February 22, 2009
Starting a High School Program
Please share your knowledge involved with the staring of High School Programs.
I like the concept of HS fencing, but distances in NC, yes and the USA are so great and the economy is so poor that transporting youths seems less than desirable. Walter Triplette has for many years attempted to establish HS fencing in NC, but distances made this not workable.
Good Luck and keep me posted if anything realistic comes to mind.
Thanks, John Wollerton
Here is some food for thought…
On Long Island the High School Teams are now fencing Mega Meets on Saturday mornings. This is a collegiate concept as well. It may be possible to use a centralized location or two with multiple strips. Clubs and/or Teams could fence each other rotating from strip to strip with a break period for lunch. This too would reduce the expense and time required for travel for the teams and referees making it more profitable and attractive.
The cost of starting a High School Fencing program can be intimidating to say the least. Clubs and/or Teams should consider starting a single weapon program. This more often than not is foil. Why? Who really knows? Epee would be the least expensive discipline. If you decide to proceed with Foil and/or Saber Clubs and Teams could share equipment for the purpose of competition.
Manual fencing without the use of electrical equipment is one way to cut corners when initially starting a program. Selecting one weapon is another. Sharing equipment at high school competitions is another. Hold mega weekends tournaments can save travel expenses too. I’m sure there are quite a few ways to stretch a dollar around a blade. What is your secret?
This was posted in another forum reference this topic by...
Michael Heggen, moniteur d'armes, USFCA, AAI head instructor, Salem Classical Fencing an AFL & USFA salle d'armes in Salem, Oregon http://www.salemclassicalfencing.org
Dry foil fencing works well for our local high school league. We have found that dry fencing promotes some very positive aspects for this age group:
you judge and are judged by your peers, and your peers will remember how accurately and fairly you judged them your teenage decision matters: other than the director (who is always an adult) with his or her vote-and-a-half, there is no adult who can possibly overrule your materiality decision as a judge the more clearly your actions are made, the better your chances of having the touch awarded, which builds a strong technical foundation (sloppy fencing = inconclusive (at best) judging) results matter, but how you get there matters just as much as athletes and officials both, the kids have a fairly strong degree of ownership in the league it doesn't matter whether you think you got the touch; it matters what the jury thinks (some valuable lessons there for adolescents) actions speak far louder than words; you must convince a jury of your peers that, at least for those few minutes, you are the best fencer on the strip—without using any words
Additionally:
equipment is cheap setup is easy, and so is armory it's spectator friendly (imagine that: spectators at a fencing competition....)
All that said, a dry league will not work well if don't train your judges well and have directors who understand how to run dry bouts. And USFA foil rules need some adapting to work for dry competition (feel free to save yourself some work: use/adapt the rules of the American Fencing League, which are designed for dry competition). Finally, dry fencing will fail utterly if the integrity of the jury system is undermined in any way, whether by biased judging or by argumentative fencers trying to influence the judges and/or director. Kids must be made to understand this—screaming after the halt, arguing, mask throwing, and related behavioral BS is incompatible with dry competition (not because of high-minded ideals, but because it interferes with the work of the jury).
A dry league may not work well for you, but it works well for us.
Here are some other things about our league that may be of interest:
We have about 30 kids spread across six schools.
Our weekly meets have two schools competing, two schools off, and two schools "hosting". Host teams are responsible for setup, teardown, and judging. We supply the directors, timekeepers, and scorekeepers.
Meets have individual events so that everyone gets a chance to fence, followed by a team match. The team matches are "what matters" to these kids—far more than the individual results. Team fencing is a great fit with high school fencing, I think (so long as there is also an individual component)—we just don't get school spirit or anything like it with individual bouts.
Meets are held on a weekday night (Wednesday works well here), just like most other varsity sports.
The schools fence a season-long round robin, concluding with a day-long championship meet for all schools. Unfortunately, there are no other cities in Oregon with high school fencing programs, so there's no state championship. (Maybe next year, though....)
Weekly meets mean weekly results in the local paper. More media coverage is (usually) a good thing for fencing.
We plan to add USFA-rules individual épée (electrical) to the league next year. We hope to be able to add team épée the following year, and eventually sabre.
A local league like ours involves no travel costs at all. Salem has just over 140,000 people with six public high schools and two private high schools (plus homeschoolers). A city/town much smaller than ours will probably not have critical mass for a league.
We have developed guidelines for schools to use for determining varsity letter awards.
We have found that co-ed (mixed) fencing works well for both individual and teams.
The league receives no school district funding. We charge the same activity fees that the schools charge for high school sports ($100/student/sport, with caps and subsidies to enable anyone to participate). For that fee, each student is issued an equipment bag with two standard foils, a mask, a jacket, a glove, knickers, and (for females) a chestplate to use for the season. They get twice weekly practices at our salle (even if they aren't members) and a two-week-long (20-hour) pre-season training camp.
Individual foil is a great event for middle-schoolers. A middle school league (like we started last fall) is an awesome feeder program for your high school league. Team fencing is not a good fit for a middle school league, by the way—it's more competitive than I think is appropriate at that age level.
Again, this is a model that works well for us. We tinker with it every year to make it better and to adapt to the growth of the league (we just finished our fourth season). The kids have a great time and learn a lot. Parents love it. The salle gets good publicity. Our staff members find it rewarding, too. All in all, a win for everyone.
Maybe our model (or something similar) will work well for you, too.
If you have questions, let me know and I'll try to help you out. __________________
just found this site so i'm a little late weighing in on this subject. the best way to start a high school program for you is to call Greg at Cape Fear and ask how he liked his first year in the NC High School Fencing League. We have 5 schools that are recognized by their schools and fence in our A league, 3 are varsity. We only fence coed foil at this point but plan to expand as time and resources become available. Most of our schools are in the greensboro area except for Elkin in the west and Cape Fear in the east. I will send you contact info by private email and lets talk. Harvey Webb Morehead High School Fencing
I am on the board of the Georgia HS Fencing League. We have 11 schools with about 300 fencers. The league for the most part was a product of grassroots efforts of parents and fencers lobbying their high schools for the right to practice as a team at the school. Inter school competition came later.
The GHSFL fences Epee, while a secondary league has found some success promoting all three weapons, with the majority of their students fencing Epee. All tournaments are electric.
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John writes…
ReplyDeleteI like the concept of HS fencing, but distances in NC, yes and the USA are so great and the economy is so poor that transporting youths seems less than desirable. Walter Triplette has for many years attempted to establish HS fencing in NC, but distances made this not workable.
Good Luck and keep me posted if anything realistic comes to mind.
Thanks,
John Wollerton
Here is some food for thought…
On Long Island the High School Teams are now fencing Mega Meets on Saturday mornings. This is a collegiate concept as well. It may be possible to use a centralized location or two with multiple strips. Clubs and/or Teams could fence each other rotating from strip to strip with a break period for lunch. This too would reduce the expense and time required for travel for the teams and referees making it more profitable and attractive.
The cost of starting a High School Fencing program can be intimidating to say the least. Clubs and/or Teams should consider starting a single weapon program. This more often than not is foil. Why? Who really knows? Epee would be the least expensive discipline. If you decide to proceed with Foil and/or Saber Clubs and Teams could share equipment for the purpose of competition.
ReplyDeleteManual fencing without the use of electrical equipment is one way to cut corners when initially starting a program. Selecting one weapon is another. Sharing equipment at high school competitions is another. Hold mega weekends tournaments can save travel expenses too. I’m sure there are quite a few ways to stretch a dollar around a blade. What is your secret?
ReplyDeleteThis was posted in another forum reference this topic by...
ReplyDeleteMichael Heggen, moniteur d'armes, USFCA, AAI
head instructor, Salem Classical Fencing
an AFL & USFA salle d'armes in Salem, Oregon
http://www.salemclassicalfencing.org
Dry foil fencing works well for our local high school league. We have found that dry fencing promotes some very positive aspects for this age group:
you judge and are judged by your peers, and your peers will remember how accurately and fairly you judged them
your teenage decision matters: other than the director (who is always an adult) with his or her vote-and-a-half, there is no adult who can possibly overrule your materiality decision as a judge
the more clearly your actions are made, the better your chances of having the touch awarded, which builds a strong technical foundation (sloppy fencing = inconclusive (at best) judging)
results matter, but how you get there matters just as much
as athletes and officials both, the kids have a fairly strong degree of ownership in the league
it doesn't matter whether you think you got the touch; it matters what the jury thinks (some valuable lessons there for adolescents)
actions speak far louder than words; you must convince a jury of your peers that, at least for those few minutes, you are the best fencer on the strip—without using any words
Additionally:
equipment is cheap
setup is easy, and so is armory
it's spectator friendly (imagine that: spectators at a fencing competition....)
All that said, a dry league will not work well if don't train your judges well and have directors who understand how to run dry bouts. And USFA foil rules need some adapting to work for dry competition (feel free to save yourself some work: use/adapt the rules of the American Fencing League, which are designed for dry competition). Finally, dry fencing will fail utterly if the integrity of the jury system is undermined in any way, whether by biased judging or by argumentative fencers trying to influence the judges and/or director. Kids must be made to understand this—screaming after the halt, arguing, mask throwing, and related behavioral BS is incompatible with dry competition (not because of high-minded ideals, but because it interferes with the work of the jury).
A dry league may not work well for you, but it works well for us.
Here are some other things about our league that may be of interest:
We have about 30 kids spread across six schools.
Our weekly meets have two schools competing, two schools off, and two schools "hosting". Host teams are responsible for setup, teardown, and judging. We supply the directors, timekeepers, and scorekeepers.
Meets have individual events so that everyone gets a chance to fence, followed by a team match. The team matches are "what matters" to these kids—far more than the individual results. Team fencing is a great fit with high school fencing, I think (so long as there is also an individual component)—we just don't get school spirit or anything like it with individual bouts.
Meets are held on a weekday night (Wednesday works well here), just like most other varsity sports.
The schools fence a season-long round robin, concluding with a day-long championship meet for all schools. Unfortunately, there are no other cities in Oregon with high school fencing programs, so there's no state championship. (Maybe next year, though....)
Weekly meets mean weekly results in the local paper. More media coverage is (usually) a good thing for fencing.
We plan to add USFA-rules individual épée (electrical) to the league next year. We hope to be able to add team épée the following year, and eventually sabre.
A local league like ours involves no travel costs at all. Salem has just over 140,000 people with six public high schools and two private high schools (plus homeschoolers). A city/town much smaller than ours will probably not have critical mass for a league.
We have developed guidelines for schools to use for determining varsity letter awards.
We have found that co-ed (mixed) fencing works well for both individual and teams.
The league receives no school district funding. We charge the same activity fees that the schools charge for high school sports ($100/student/sport, with caps and subsidies to enable anyone to participate). For that fee, each student is issued an equipment bag with two standard foils, a mask, a jacket, a glove, knickers, and (for females) a chestplate to use for the season. They get twice weekly practices at our salle (even if they aren't members) and a two-week-long (20-hour) pre-season training camp.
Individual foil is a great event for middle-schoolers. A middle school league (like we started last fall) is an awesome feeder program for your high school league. Team fencing is not a good fit for a middle school league, by the way—it's more competitive than I think is appropriate at that age level.
Again, this is a model that works well for us. We tinker with it every year to make it better and to adapt to the growth of the league (we just finished our fourth season). The kids have a great time and learn a lot. Parents love it. The salle gets good publicity. Our staff members find it rewarding, too. All in all, a win for everyone.
Maybe our model (or something similar) will work well for you, too.
If you have questions, let me know and I'll try to help you out.
__________________
just found this site so i'm a little late weighing in on this subject. the best way to start a high school program for you is to call Greg at Cape Fear and ask how he liked his first year in the NC High School Fencing League. We have 5 schools that are recognized by their schools and fence in our A league, 3 are varsity. We only fence coed foil at this point but plan to expand as time and resources become available. Most of our schools are in the greensboro area except for Elkin in the west and Cape Fear in the east. I will send you contact info by private email and lets talk.
ReplyDeleteHarvey Webb
Morehead High School Fencing
I am on the board of the Georgia HS Fencing League. We have 11 schools with about 300 fencers. The league for the most part was a product of grassroots efforts of parents and fencers lobbying their high schools for the right to practice as a team at the school. Inter school competition came later.
ReplyDeleteThe GHSFL fences Epee, while a secondary league has found some success promoting all three weapons, with the majority of their students fencing Epee. All tournaments are electric.